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The truth comes out
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Nariis
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Those of you in chat know that I was defending TH until my fingers were numb. I've seen the letter mailed to the admins, and whether you believe it or not, the PR loophole was used by TH during the week I was offline with no power due to Frances. I have the logs from someone saying that it was done while I was gone. This is what was mailed in:
Ok, I am here to admit to our participation in the port raid loop hole. First as we have been accused straight out and in round about ways, this is not fully the case. We hit ports in raids and these ports produced x amount of money which had nothing to do with anyone depositing any amount of money in to get 5x back. But because we have done this and made nice amount of money from this and we have traders who are trading and bringing in money of course we are assumed to have been cheating.
After this was accused, we did try to see if it works. Yes, we did deposit money in the port to see what if we got 5x back. We like many others, have done this, and those who are pointing fingers are not knowledgeable to our money situation and having to defend ourselves to them seems a bit harsh to me. Yes we hit a port and we knew we would get probably around 400K maybe even up to 500K from it cause it was the traded often to stock planets and part of a great route that one certain alliance made. The amount put in was about 20 mill I think to get 100 mill back. But as I said, this was mainly to see if this theory really worked or not.
I have heard all the accusations, as well as others in my alliance, but as I told one person, no one outside of our alliance knows what our traders are making, so they have no room to make accusations on facts they are not purvey to. No alliance should have to tell others how much we make trading or where we trade because others have issues, but I will tell you we have a few Ike traders that make 18 mill a day nearly from a trade route we made in Anc. When we hit the WQ ports that were the top ports for that race we made excellent money from them. Approximately 250-400K. I do not remember the exact amount. This was not done with any loop hole. It was accomplished fair and square. But I can guarantee there are many alliances, including the ones pointing the fingers that have done this that will not come forward.
And to be honest, I personally didn't think it worked, and when it did I was shocked. But, to me, I think I feel if it is doable, then it isn't punishable. Maybe a little common sense would have said it was not exactly right to do, but it has been my understanding that if it is capable to be done and it's not a bug, then it is part of the game. It's not like 2 people firing on a port and bragging about keeping the double money. That is blatantly dishonest more than someone putting more in a port to get money out. I do feel in a way, it was more curiosity and saying gee you already think we did so why not see if it works.
I have read your post and I am coming forward with this as you requested, and for the record not many people in our alliance are aware of this. Jester was going to send this, but he does not have a logon to the wb so I am doing it for him and myself. As we have read that no one will be banned for this, we acknowledge that the loop hole is an offense and punishable in the future.
Thank you,
Hadeslady
Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
I'd ask if anyone would like a poor little trade wench now, but hey....
Last edited by Nariis on Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:43 pm Report this post
OmegaRenegade
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Well I was gone during this whole fiasco, though I've heard that my alliance behaved themselves ^_^
Anyways I think you should all divide up the cash you made from this loophole and store it on your ships, then get semis and my alliance will pod you one by one
Yeah I like that plan, seems like a fair an just punishment hehehe
*runs and hides
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Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:50 pm Report this post Profile MSNM/WLM ICQ YIM AIM WWW
Nariis
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madMatt wanted to add something, but he can't remember his password here, so this is what he wanted to share:
From: Jester (67) Date: 9/14/2004 10:43:44 PM
Well mad matt, the thorn, is gone. We now can rest our eyes easy and can read posts normal once again.
this is how u treat a person that leaves after u get caught cheating u amke him look bad?why nottell ya alalince the truth rather than slander me and make me look bad be a man fess up and take ya punishment rather than passing blame
Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:01 am Report this post
OmegaRenegade
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Sounds like a real honorable alliance leader, glad you did the right thing jester, keep on your path of leading in a steadfast honorable fashion, you are a shining example of high moral character that we all should strive to follow
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Ardbeg
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Well, I'm sorry - but Mad Matt didn't raid those ports all by himself. It doesn't matter how honorable some of the alliance is (and I completely trust both Jester & Nariis), blatant loophole abuse must be punished.
Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:16 am Report this post Profile ICQ YIM
Mad
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Ardberg Omega and rest iam not one in question and that got caught.Jester and hades lady was i been defending them the whole time to all til i was shown letter me and naaris posted i left th over it cause they hide it from me and rest all game til they got shown proof and only then admitted it.jester and hades are the ones that got caught doing it and sent letter to azool and spock listed above. anythat dont beieve ask spock or azool or any admin they will back me up i have honor and despise cheating is why i left th more than that is that i got lied 2 for weeks and stood up for them to my firends that asked me if we was guilty and admins.when naaris showed me proof i confronted them both only then did they admit and that is why me and naaris left right now they still have not told th the real story and u can see by post he wrote them after i left they trying to make me look like the bad guy rather than fess up and take there punishment they both hurt me very much i despise cheating if anyone knows me so omega and ardy get ya facts straight before he post agian please. thanks and jester and hades shame on u! before u guys blow jester read and relize he is cheater here and not me and then abuse him like u did me when u thought i was on caught he did a cover up but we goot proof!
Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:45 am Report this post Profile
Mad
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another thing to all thet did the abuse and say we was not planning to use the money was was just testing is bs u cheated bottom line dont matter if u planned to use money or not what matters is you knew it was wrong and did it anyways. its a bs all saying we did it to test u cheated bottom line using money after dont matter its a excuse own up all in question and admit you cheated and take ya punishment cause dont worry soon the truth wil come out those cheating wil get punished admins are looking this overright now if your alliance has billions like i know a few bigger ones do u should question leadership where the money came from!
Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:08 am Report this post Profile
Hate
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I agree that the ones involved should be punished. Banning them no removing their money yes. I am not only talknig about the money they made from the loophole but with a 25% of all their money for abusing the loophole.
Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:59 am Report this post Profile
Ardbeg
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My apologies to Mad Matt for getting my facts wrong. I think it is time for a thorough investigation of this, because this is smelling more & more like blatant and knowing abuse by 2 established vets, one of them an admin. If this is the case, punitive action must be taken and if not, then the community needs to know that this has been investigated and cleared up.
If, as seems to be the case, this has been behind the seemingly endless resources TH have had in their losing war against Crusaders then it has cost an honest alliance a significant cost in resources and turns - resources which could have been spent elsewhere.
No matter the outcome, there must be an investigation, and the veteran/admin status of the suspects must not influence that.
Wed Sep 15, 2004 12:08 pm Report this post Profile ICQ YIM
Mad
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Apoligy excepted u just got confused by post i agree a big punishment should be handed out so in future those that bend rules and cheat will know what will happen to then if they get caught.Also a reset or new game be a good idea this game is tainted over this scandal and th is not only allaince that abused this not fair some alliances have billions from cheating when others play by the rules and dont. We need a reset or new game to even playing field, game goes on will just discourage players that play to not, Also if they not punished it will show that these games and cheating can happen and not be punished if they get punished and are set as a example then this might slow or end cheating because people wil be afraid what will happen if they are caught i think a ban or suspension is in order for jester hadeslady and whoever else is caught doing this.
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Freon22
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Taking the money back isn't going to help if they have already used some of it on forces, ships, and weapons. I like the "new game" ideal, isn't this game already half over anyway? I sat this game out, didn't have the free time to play and have just been waiting for the new game so I can play. So bring on the new game!!!! :D
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Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:09 pm Report this post Profile WWW
Hate
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I said it before i agree they should be punished. Banning them is not the answer. Removing jester's admin status as well as fining them 25 % of their alliance cash as well as removing all money gained from the pr's would be the best way to settle this. This will show that cheating is not favored in this game to newer players. This is a live game however and if they choose to test a bug/loophole then it should of been tested in beta and not in a live game. By doing it in a live game and not asking for all money to be removed does show that they are doing it for an advantage for their alliance and for themself.
Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:11 pm Report this post Profile
BooRawl
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Well I was there... at the port raid. I am not a cheater, and deserve not to be coated with the brush anymore than Mad Matt. From the above, someone tested the loop hole out of curiosity. But Ardbeg's Alliance put a lot of money into a level 2 or 3 port and made it a 9. I was surprised how much we got out of that port. But to coat everyone in TH as a cheater is just as bad, is worse than the person who let their curiosity get the better of them. Most of the people out side of TH and Mad Matts comments do nothing to solve the problem and are only hurting the game, with there lack of knowledge of what happened. Let Admin handle it, don't go calling TH cheaters.
Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:48 pm Report this post Profile
Mad
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they knew before they did it and its wrong why they apoligized that excuse is getting old i wanted to test it if u spend money or not is not issue they knew it was wrong then did it anyways that is cheating
also boorawl u dont play under that name so leave a name with ya post so we know who is speaking
Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:32 pm Report this post Profile
Warlock
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I am glad that I can say with clear conscience and 100% certainty that my alliance has never touched this exploit. Its a shame that some people just can't accept losing, and will cheat to prevent it, or to just make the game easier! The player base of this game were once strong advocates of the 'spirit of the game', and it was the veterans who led by example. To see two players who are far from newbies, one even an admin! so blatantly breaking the rules, stooping to the level of cheaters, is apalling. Regrettfully, I suspect that others will be found to have done the same pitiful deed. Yet regardless of how many are found, they must be punished, and not a slap on the hand. Not only for breaking the rules, but for taking away from the game from those of us who are honest.
As to the members of TH, I simply say this. Many of you might well have been ignorant of the abuse of this bug, and knowingly played no part in it. But the key words are have been. You now know well the outright cheating performed by your alliance leader, which you benefited from. It has been revealed to all. Yet you still remain in The Hollow. You still back someone who's actions are revolting to the community at large. That states something about your character as well. I aplaud Mad Matt, for he would rather lose honest, alone, then play or win a cheater.
Punish those who are found. Otherwise, you encourage it to be done with the next bug.
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Vober
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It seems like every bug/loophole / whatever it is, we find it, "make sure its fair", abuse the hell out of it, and then we have to code a fix when it gets extremely out of control.
Its rather disappointing how this is unfolding :/
Its rather disappointing that a few had to ruin this whole game :/
Its rather sad that there are only a few honest alliance out there :/
Its all rather sad :/
Its rather sad that this will happen again.
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Carnuth
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everyone who abused this bug and gained from it is an arsehole, screw you, you ruined the game for ME and EVERYONE else.
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Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:30 pm Report this post Profile
Harry Krishna
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This is getting blown all out of proportion. IMO the game isn't ruined and those that say it is are only adding to the level of hysteria. Or they are using this as an excuse to reset a universe map that they didn't like from the beginning.
A loophole was found and reported last game...not fixed...used/abused in this game...fixed finally. Sure, it sux this stuff happens but it does happen ocasionally in almost every online game there is. When it does, there are rules in place and steps taken to deal with it. Admins, although acting very slowly, are taking care of it. Whatever abuses that have taken place, have been or will be dealt with appropriately.
The lesson here is one that everyone can learn from: reporting bugs and loopholes is the right thing to do and makes the game better, abusing them tears it down and ruins the community that we're trying to build.
Now it's time to get over it and play on.
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Nix`
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Just another day of drama on smr thanks to people and their personal grudges.
Get over it. Seriously like this place is just getting stupid with all the petty little mud slinging. Fine they exploited a bug. A bug didn't just pop up magically. It had already been reported, the admins should of put out an earlier warning or coded it out. Not sure about this so someone can tell me, did armada get banned for using the 1 good per trade bug? Cause I noticed some pretty high exp guy's remain on in hte game.
Fine it wasn't honourable. Perhaps it changed the game around a little, however it was available to everyone. I have no doubt that this was blown up by a few people knick knacking at people they didn't like. This dance has become tiresome. Stop flogging the dead horse. Not like this game can afford losing more players...
Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:21 am Report this post Profile MSNM/WLM
Warlock
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I'd rather see the game lose some cheaters then play in a spoiled game. As to the effects of this bug....
A certain alliance leader stated to me that they had made X amount in the hundreds of millions week 2? of the game PRing when they discovered the 2 shot bug, and that that excess cash was already bonded. Now, how much interest has that excess cash gained in a month? Or the excess taken by others bonding for weeks? This is not a minor amount of cash. This is the cost of entire fleets.
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Anx-
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Believe it was 80-90m Warlock.....Ive personally spent more than that buying ppl ships that I kill or who ask nicely :P
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Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:32 am Report this post Profile ICQ
BooRawl
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I would like to appoligize Mad, for getting upset with you. I just did not believe you were being fair to the people who are playing in TH. I am the one who sent you the messages in game, and who made my own silly Alliance. To this I apoligize to you.
Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:59 pm Report this post Profile
LotuS
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can i have a DC? please? :D
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BooRawl
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The third post has nothing to do with Mad Matt, and his objections to Jesters comments. It was partially, joke and partially truth about how some felt about an incident just before Mad Matt left. Has no business in this thread. Cut and paste is fun.
Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:38 pm Report this post Profile
Mad
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this is not a place for jokes right now
Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:02 pm Report this post Profile
Thennian
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bah if it was a bunch of noobs abusing the bugs u all know what would happen to them...
Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:57 pm Report this post Profile AIM
Vober
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Thennian wrote:
bah if it was a bunch of noobs abusing the bugs u all know what would happen to them...
prolly perm-bans.
But it wasnt a bunch of noobs...
I dont really think we need to be so harsh ;) just firm in our (well the admins) desicions....
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Nix`
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Cheater still play the game. People who have been caught red handed cheating. What about people who steaL from AA's? They don't get banned. I know for a fact that some people who play this game have cheated (or still do) and not been found out.
It was a bug available to all, before people attempt to get ever so moral about all of this remember it was available to you as well. I heard that some people were calling for a perm ban of some players or the game reset. Put it into perspective, the only people requesting that are people who have personal grudges against those people who allegdly used the bug.
If someone is banned for using the bug then whenever someone is podded and they lose no exp, or cash or dont gain etc. it must be modified, because in essence that is a bug being intentionaly or unintentionally used and that does affect the game play.
Its not one rule for player X and another rule for player Y. The requested punishments and modifications to player / game stats arent consistent with other punishments.
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piratedan
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I rarely post here, because i really don't like to because it always seems that when you do you get skewered. I read the announcement that was posted about exploiting known bugs. I see the letter admitting that perhaps some liberties were indeed taken. I know that our group made our suspicions known and we're told that there is no proof and therefore shut up or get banned yourself. We made an effort to gain that proof, by crunching numbers of calculating ships lost and purchased and goods traded but when you figured in the flux of alliance membership there was no way to have any concrete or conclusive proof. I guess what I have to say is that I'm sad that it's come to this. Sad to know that folks took advantage, sad to know how much hate and discontent this has caused. I do want the admins to do something, I want it out in the open so everyone knows what was decided and by whom. So that whatever is done, even if it's nothing, we can finally end this and move on. Then we can happily go back to the old days of just being resentful of folks with faster connections than ourselves.
Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:23 am Report this post Profile AIM
Kuwl
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the admins need to just lock this thread, and all other threads pertaining to this discussion and make a decision. Keeping this open for 5+ days isn't a good thing. The action of the admins should have been done the day of, or the day after Jester came out of his shell and told SMR.
Lock the threads, and do some punishment. There's nothing more to discuss.
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axisofunity
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Kuwl wrote:
Lock the threads, and do some punishment. There's nothing more to discuss.
Spank me baby!
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